Issue with Boyfriend

[Kamel]

My boyfriend (of slightly over two years) has been out of town for nearly two weeks now and will be returning home this weekend and I recently found out he's been putting some nasty, overpowerfully smelling lotion on his feet. He's done this before and not only did it ruin his feet for me but the socks and shoes as well so I'm already upset that he's gonna come home with his shoes smelling like that nasty lotion which in turn will have an effect on his socks as well as feet.

I'm pissed. He knows I get into his feet and especially with worn socks and what not so I don't know why he'd do this. He said he'll wear the same pair of socks for the next few days before he comes home (maybe he says) but if his shoes are going to smell like that lotion it ain't gonna make no damn difference.

Am I wrong to be upset?

He likes my hair somewhat more grown out so I haven't cut it even though I hate it's length and I do other thing or don't that he might like but I feel when it comes to me he just doesn't give much of a shit as evident by this whole foot thing and then to a lesser extent when he shaves his chest/pits/crotch and/or his face knowing I like some hair.

Really upsetting considering he's been gone for so long and I ain't got no feet to look forward to. Then, even if by some small chance him wearing the same pair of socks for the next few days undoes the damage he's already done with the lotion he's already saying he's going to put the lotion back on afterwards.

I'd rather be under his feet, when smelly and sweaty, than getting plowed so this is damn upsetting for me. I've accepted that he rarely wears the same pair of socks for more than a day but this I just can't accept. I feel almost guilty as if our relationship is nothing but this but it isn't, he barely delivers on the foot needs as I've said already which I accepted but this is just intolerable, especially how I feel how he doesn't much consider my needs.

What do you think?

[Franz]

Kamel, you need to listen to your "inner voice", your "gut feeling", about how you feel and feel like responding to this so-called boyfriend of yours. Based on what you've said, clearly this clown is not merely indifferent to your needs and desires, he is deliberately making an effort to deny that your needs and desires have any claim on him. He doesn't evidence that he feels any reciprocal obligation to you, notwithstanding your efforts to deliver on your presumed sense of obligation to him.

So, I would say that it's past time for you to ditch this guy. You need him like a hog needs an umbrella. Judging from his responses and reactions to you, he either feels no obligaion to you whatever or he simply doesn't give a crap about you. Reciprocity in a relationship is crucial, but this bozo doesn't seem to understand that--or, if he does, then he's showing you that he is absolutely indifferent to you. Either way, I'd advise you to drop him like a bad habit. To me he sounds decidedly selfish, immature, and even cruel. Believe me, you can do a lot better than this self-centered bozo. It's time for you to cut your losses and move on.

Franz

[Kamel]

Thanks for the reply and insight... I never thought about a reciprocal obligation but that is a good point for sure.

He just called me now after the gym saying his shoes still smell like the lotion as do his newly put on socks. He was going to wear the same pair now before he comes home, which is tomorrow, which would be maybe barely 48 hours and is asking if he should change socks or keep them on considering the damage from the shoes... I don't know, it ain't gonna make no damn difference as his socks/shoes/feet ain't gonna be that worked up over two days of wear. Just so very upsetting, and he soiled TWO pairs of shoes.

Ditching him though sounds harsh, I love him, I don't think I could over this; over anything it would be hard to leave the boyfriend. On the phone he was upset at me saying I'm giving him a "guilt trip" and well, yeah, because I love him. I can't go out and find someone else to worship his feet as I don't want anyone elses feet or love or embrace but my boyfriends... Reason I'm upset. If I didn't love him or nothing I would care far less, I'd just move along. His attitude to the whole situation is even more upsetting.

He is selfish and immature and maybe even cruel (though I would classify cruel under deliberate and I don't feel he did this deliberately but out of selfish, carelessness). He says it was a mistake but he knows I get into his feet and we've had this issue before with the lotion. He just doesn't think. I'm an after-thought. Same as when he talks it's always "I" and "me" never "us." There is more than just this, such as when he took a trip to Europe by himself without me to which he finally invited me to come at the last minute, the week before he flew out which he thinks redeems himself of taking a trip without me. Ridiculous.


EDIT -- So I called him and he started cussing and what not getting upset and I eventually hanged up. He called back about 3 minutes later to say "I love you." And we talked a bit more about the issue and he is claiming he stopped putting the lotion on a night before I asked him about it because he knew I feel... There is no way to verify this claim but no less, did he really think 3 or so days would undo the damage?

Nonetheless, he has agreed to make it right with details we will work out later. He's already said he'll wear this one pair of socks I have from him that he wore for a week for the entire weekend (not sure how this will work with the shoes being soiled but in a worse case scenario he'll have to go home to get a new pair) and I'm going to go ahead and assume this is in addition to the details we will work out later for how he will make it right.

Assuming he keeps his end of the bargain I feel this is fair, his end being, at a minimum, wearing the same pair of socks for an entire week including for gym workouts.

He is selfish and inconsiderate so assuming he didn't stop using the lotion before I asked (as in he actually thought of me and my needs) he didn't do this intentionally, just carelessly. Hopefully he'll learn from this experience as I like to believe he is getting better but then again, I could just be foolish.

[BootsMcGraw]

See my analysis; below. No person in a healthy relationship would ever utter the phrases or report the situations I marked [RED FLAG!]. I could go into painful detail about the "why" of each flag, if you want. But let it suffice that your post flew more red flags than a NASCAR qualifying event.

Being a Moderator of these message boards, I usually keep neutral on subjects and not give advice, especially since this advice is painful. But you did ask for it.

End the relationship, as soon as it is practical for you to get out. If it's your home, and he is living in it as a roommate, simply evict him. If it's his home, and you are living in it, find a place of your own, ASAP, then move out, preferably when he's not there to argue. If you are co-owners, I feel sorry for you; you're screwed until you can come to an agreement on who gets to keep the place.

But most importantly: GET HELP. Get counseling. You have a twisted view of what a relationship is and how they work. Since I am not a counselor, I don't have the authority to tell you specifically what you are doing wrong. But I know a train wreck in the making, when I see one.

Respectfully,

-McGraw.



Thanks for the reply and insight... I never thought about a reciprocal obligation [RED FLAG!] but that is a good point for sure....

...Ditching him though sounds harsh, I love him, I don't think I could over this; over anything it would be hard to leave the boyfriend.[RED FLAG!] On the phone he was upset at me saying I'm giving him a "guilt trip" [RED FLAG!] and well, yeah, because I love him. I can't go out and find someone else [RED FLAG!] to worship his feet as I don't want anyone elses feet or love or embrace but my boyfriends [RED FLAG!]... Reason I'm upset. If I didn't love him or nothing I would care far less, I'd just move along. His attitude to the whole situation is even more upsetting.

He is selfish [RED FLAG!] and immature [RED FLAG!] and maybe even cruel [RED FLAG!] (though I would classify cruel under deliberate and I don't feel he did this deliberately but out of selfish, carelessness). He says it was a mistake but he knows I get into his feet and we've had this issue before with the lotion [RED FLAG!]. He just doesn't think.[RED FLAG!] I'm an after-thought.[RED FLAG!] Same as when he talks it's always "I" and "me" never "us."[RED FLAG!] There is more than just this [RED FLAG!], such as when he took a trip to Europe by himself without me to which he finally invited me to come at the last minute, the week before he flew out which he thinks redeems himself of taking a trip without me. Ridiculous.


EDIT -- So I called him and he started cussing [RED FLAG!] and what not getting upset [RED FLAG!] and I eventually hanged up. He called back about 3 minutes later to say "I love you." [BIG RED FLAG!] And we talked a bit more about the issue and he is claiming he stopped putting the lotion on a night before I asked him about it because he knew I feel... There is no way to verify this claim but no less, did he really think 3 or so days would undo the damage?...

Assuming [RED FLAG!] he keeps his end of the bargain I feel this is fair, his end being, at a minimum, wearing the same pair of socks for an entire week including for gym workouts.

He is selfish [RED FLAG!] and inconsiderate [RED FLAG!] so assuming he didn't stop using the lotion before I asked (as in he actually thought of me and my needs) he didn't do this intentionally, just carelessly. Hopefully he'll learn from this experience as I like to believe [RED FLAG!] he is getting better but then again, I could just be foolish.

[drummer]

I had a similar problem with a horrible laundry detergent my friend was using, which would stink up the whole house with a sickening, chemical perfume that I found very unpleasant. So I just went out and bought him a great big bottle of a laundry detergent I like, which is deliberately manufactured without dyes and perfumes for the sake of people who have allergies, and that was the end of all that.

So I'd want to know what the point of this foot-lotion is in the first place, and then go looking for one that doesn't have whatever scent or taste you find unpleasant, and ask him to try using that instead.

For example, if all he wants is to apply something a little oily that will keep the skin of feet feeling supple, go get a nice jar of coconut oil at your nearest "natural food" store: it's a marvelous lotion that is quite free of odors, probably much more effective for his purposes, and perfectly edible, so it shouldn't interfere with any of your oral enjoyments of his feet. He might even find that he likes it better than this lotion you're finding so obnoxious.

[akeel]

The others are right ... get out of it. Unless you like the drama, which is a whole other situation. You know what's right for you - act on it.

[drummer]

I'm astounded that everybody else thinks that this issue of the fellow putting a lotion on his feet is enough for a couple of two years to break up.

I think every couple in the entire world gets into squabbles about something. One long marriage I knew explodes into resentful periods of mutual irritation whenever the seat of a toilet is left in the wrong position; another couple I know, two men in this case, gets into quarrels over lights left burning, no matter how often the thrifty partner begs the careless partner to save a few pennies by turning off lights upon leaving a room.

Mature people don't break up a long relationship over such things, and don't interpret such thoughtlessness as proof positive that they aren't loved. Your partner said he was sorry for disappointing you, and if he comes back this time with the odor of his feet ruined for you by that unpleasant lotion, then there will be other opportunities, in future, for him to present you with his feet in a more arousing state. Only a very childish person indeed is incapable of looking beyond the next few hours or the next few days to see that this isn't the end of the world.

He put lotion on his feet, not to upset you, but for some other reason. Let's find out what it is he likes about smearing this lotion on his feet, and then find a substitute that does the same thing and doesn't interfere with the natural scent of his feet that you enjoy so much.

This seems like such a tiny problem to me, compared to the more serious strains that can bear down on a relationship, like career moves forcing people to different cities, or immigration restrictions making it impossible for two men to join their lives the way a man might marry a bride from another country, not to mention the general hatred and bigotry which two men face, and the general disregard and scorn most men, of all sexual orientations, have toward men with a fetish.

If your friend got good and drunk, brought illegal drugs into the house, beat you up, and then went out to play a foot-domination game with some stranger from a bar, then I could see thinking about calling it quits. But over some noxious, perfumey lotion that can be washed off?!

His sweat glands will function just as nicely next week as this week.

[akeel]

The fact that this seems just to be about lotion is the biggest red flag, drummer. There's more going on here than than that. Read in between the lines of the OP's posts. It's not just 'how can I get him to stop using this lotion?" In fact, all it should take is the guy to stop using it. Instead, OP is running to a board to seek a solution, which in itself, is a major red flag.

[Kamel]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

We were just talking on the phone now as he is heading back today and I asked him if he'll be stopping by his ex-boyfriends house in San Diego as he stopped there when he came back home the last time and I was pissed as he didn't even so much as tell me about it until after the fact. So I asked and he said no because the ex is busy and something about if he felt like it he would... Well, I'm not the kind of person who freaks out about an ex, it's nice they remain friends BUT... The ex still likes him and despite the ex being in a relationship of his own he says he'd leave him for my boyfriend. This worries me.

I never met the ex and they talk on the phone still at times and the ex still likes him. The boyfriend says it's nothing and that if he still liked him he wouldn't be friends with him but their friendship isn't mutually platonic and I never met the guy. If I met him and gauged their chemistry then it might be different but regardless: If don't like something the boyfriend should respect my wishes.

I stopped even going out to bars because he didn't like it. One time he even bitched me out on the phone cause I was out doing karaoke at some dive bar in the neighborhood. I don't feel as though he respects me as much as I respect him nor do we love each other on the same plane.

He just called back again and said he won't see the ex until I meet him though he's probably just saying it... I don't know. Either way, I do want out but painlessly. I can deal with the heartache of losing him as I can justify the pain due to the fact our love might not be mutual but the loneliness of not having him around anymore I don't want to face. And I ain't got much friends to comfort me, or well, none to be exact.

The real kicker in all this is early in our relationship I found him answering posts on Craigslist to which when I questioned him he denied it and lied. Eventually admitted it to it after going on about it and while I accepted his reasoning, that he wasn't sure about us, the fact he lied and denied it for a good few minutes is really troubling. This was maybe three months into our relationship but I was still on the fence about us so I wasn't really putting much in time wise or otherwise so... I could see him exploring other options as I wasn't really giving him my all. I would probably be unsure about myself as well at this time.. But again, it's the fact he lied and denied it at first that is really troubling here.

More upsetting is that I no longer mention it. I don't want it being a thorn in our relationship, I can't recall the last time I ever brought it up in an argument but yet he has no problem bringing up all sorts of nonsense about me which wouldn't even begin to compare to what he did.


So yeah, it's more than just the lotion thing. The lotion thing just ties into him having no respect for me. But we came to a settlement over the lotion issue so I will hope he keeps his end of the settlement so I'm going to hope for the best at this time.

[sabuninja]

It sounds definitely more than just the act of using a bad lotion. There is a lot of drama and tit for tats and it doesn't sound healthy to me at all. There is definitely a lack of respect going on here.

[drummer]

Here, I just saw a nice little description of how to use olive oil as a moisturizer on the feet, over here (http://www.ehow.com/how_4576782_use-olive-oil-feet.html).

Since your partner seems to want some sort of pampering lotion on his feet, why don't you offer to do this for him, once you're finished enjoying his feet? I was suggesting coconut oil because it seems pretty much odorless and tasteless to me, and seems to have a cooling effect and be good for us generally, but this article is babbling about anti-oxidants or something of that sort, so maybe olive oil is even better. It has a flavor and a scent, of course, at least the sort of quality olive oil they're talking about, but perhaps you'd find that less offensive than the artificial, laboratory perfume in whatever lotion it is that you find so disgusting.

That'll also show him that you're trying to accommodate his wish to apply something to his feet for whatever reason he wants to do so.

And besides, "annointing someone's feet" is a nice, biblical sort of worshipful way to behave...isn't there some pretty little story in the Bible about someone annointing Jesus's feet with some precious oil? I know there's a scene in the opera Parsifal in which Kundry annoints the title character's feet, after washing them, and then uses her own long hair to pat them dry, thus providing an opportunity for opera-goers to get a peek at their favorite Heldentenor's feet. (I can't think of any other opera-role that requires a male character to bare his feet, can you?)

[flickfire]

I think Boots is right, Kamel. It sounds like there are a lot of red flags in your relationship. Your boyfriend sounds very selfish and arrogant. If he knows the strong smell of that lotion on his feet is bothering you, then that alone should be enough reason for him to stop using it,
but like others have said, your relationship goes much further than the lotion issue.

Your boyfriend is posting on Craigslist (perhaps looking for other companionship?) without even telling you about it, and it sounds to me that maybe your boyfriends' relationship
with his "ex" is a lot more than what he's letting on to you.

You also sound like you don't completely trust him, and if that's case, then it doesn't bode well for your relationship. Love, trust, and mutual respect have to go together in a good relationship, if it's to survive.

Simply loving someone is not enough.

[gbmcleod]

It seems to me that there is a central matter here: trust. And another: intention.

If the intention is good, but the person is unused to considering the wishes of others, there are several options: leave, set rules, or go into therapy.

If the matter is one of trust, then this is an entirely different matter.

Forgive me if I do not simply accept the word of our poster, the foot guy, but we are hearing a perspective, not facts. One of my ex-boyfriends (when he was still my boyfriend) told me I "expect a lot of my friends," to which I replied, looking him dead in the eye, "Yes, I expect them not to be mean, unkind of petty towards me. I'm none of those things towards them." The ex-boyfriend was, unfortunately, frequently mean, which is why he's an ex. I always want to accept the word of the person I can relate most to, which is our footfriend, but I'd still want to hear the boyfriend's point of view. That is only fair to both parties. Rarely is one person's perspective the whole - and complete - picture. If the boyfriend IS unkind, mean and selfish, then that begs the question any good therapist would ask: what are you getting out of this by staying? The usual answer is: it confirms that I don't deserve someone who treats me well. Since we're handing out advice here, let me ask our poster to consider what his upbringing was like, and which parent his current boyfriend most resembles. I think that will give him his answer. Some of us won't, earlier in life (say, up to our 40s) pick someone who is our best match. Sometimes fireworks make us think it's Love. It isn't, but that's what some people think.
So, again, we see only one side of the picture. We need to see the other side before we condemn the boyfriend. Again, that's only fair.

[SirBearFoot]

Kamel, I moved cross-country from NY to Palm Springs in 2002. I met a guy from there in Florida a few months earlier and visited PS a few times, so when he suggested I become his roommate (two bedroom condo) and possibly date I agreed. I did enjoy playing with him, but I hated sleeping with him - I had to buy a fan to put next to the bed to blow his utterly horrible breath away from my side - it would wake me up!

The morning after I arrived a truck came and removed all the furniture from the second bedroom so I was stuck in his room until I found another place. Even more fun, the management position in an upscale resort I had secured months earlier evaporated - the owner met some kid in a bar and gave him my job. Work is hard to come by in PS. This "friend" suggested as "just friends" I join his car insurance to save a few hundred each month, and I agreed. Then he suggested I combine bank accounts (there were no branches of my bank in the valley), and I shudder to think of how stupid I was, but I agreed.

Long story short - I no longer had access to my money, I was relying on him for my car insurance, and by the time I escaped a few months later I was down $5K in savings and $2K in credit card debt (I was debt free before, and again not long after I left there).

My saving grace was at the dog park - a guy I would chat with every day told me after two weeks he was a therapist - and I was at the start of a classic abusive relationship. I was losing control of finance and other business independence, I was getting cut off from family, it was uncomfortable for me to hang out with other gay men, and worst - I saw him screw with his cat until it scratched him - and then he punched it. I was with my dog and was afraid he might get annoyed one day and hurt it when I wasn't there. I managed to get out of there within two weeks - and then he started stalking me. I had to finally convince him that if I did report him (and I had phone, video and eyewitness verification he was showing up at my job and my home) he would (a) go to jail (it's a good two-year sentence in California) and (b) as a felon he would lose his license to work in the casino as a croupier. That's the only way I got rid of him. I left behind a few hundred bucks in the bank account rather than try to get it back.

The point of all this blah, blah, blah is that there are warning signs when someone is purposely disrespectful of a simple, yet very important detail to you, and you said this isn't the first time. Also, as Boots pointed out, the fact that he's causing you so much grief, and you had to resort to hanging up on him for him to call you back and say he loves you is a great, big, giant red flag indeed. Don't forget, women (and men) who get abused frequently get great big make-up sex, flowers, nice treatment... until it happens again, and then the whole get-you-disarmed-from-leaving act begins again.

PS - a few months after I escaped that relationship I met my current partner (7 years in Feb). He had also been stalked by the same guy - and that became one of the first ice-breaker things in common we had! This guy pumices his feet and cuts his toenails the way I like, as well as "asks" me to massage his feet every night while watching TV in bed (frequently ending up with me cumming all over them) -- I get my needs met, and I enjoy doing things for him that aren't necessarily "my thing"... but that's what a relationship is about. Stuff in common as well as reasonable give-and-take. Not all give, not all take.