for participants in the cunt congress...

[ftlaudft]

This is a better place to air out our feelings about word choice. It really isn't right to ruin a guy's post just because we don't like the way he expresses himself. And of course for many people without any sense of humor any attempt to make a witticism will fail to be understood.

I'm baffled by the sudden chivalry of some FootBuddies and their sudden desire to protect and uphold the sanctity of women. I really thought most of us loved and respected women without having to say so. It's simply a given and seems irrelevant to the purpose of this site, a fun site for adults into feet. But one playful word, used in the casual way guys do when they roughhouse together, has caused a number of buddies to assume the pose of St George as he clobbers the dragon to defend a helpless maid.

I do understand that most of us are gay here. Some probably have a deep feminine side that needs to be expressed occasionally. The roughhouse term "cunt"' may have provoked a sense of being attacked in some of our more gentle members, who then felt the need to rise up and bond with the great sisterhood of womankind. We forgive you. We clasp you to our macho bosoms and give you leave to twinkle as you will.

But do lighten up! Most of us here really do love women and in fact a large number of us came into the world through real feminine female women. Oh, I know, a few may have been pooped into the world by a single parent father, but let's give the benefit of the doubt.

This is a fun site where good people can talk about serious things if they want to. Let's keep it that way.

[iluvfeet12]

I personally don't get how "cunt" is playful. It's pretty much the most offensive thing you could refer a woman as. I just don't think it's an appropriate word to randomly use to describe any given woman. Why always go for the offensive words? Would calling her a girl have been that much to ask?

I don't go around calling every man "fag" or "dickhead". Especially not strangers in the streets. The choice of word offended me not because it was about a woman, but because it was utterly uncalled for. The fact that we are all a community of foot-loving men doesn't excuse us from manners, in my opinion. This place is about our love for feet, not about freely insulting people left and right in a "playful" way.

Plenty of people have posted pictures with some female presence in the past, and none of them ever referred to the said woman in a negative way. At most, they erase the woman in photoshop or paint, but they never throw insults at her for just being there.

I'm not saying we all need to be holier than thou, I'm just saying that certain words are just not playful, and that random insults are not fun. Instead of having people comment on the beautiful feet in the pictures he posted, he instead offended a few people and a big discussion took place. Would he have simply said "don't mind the girl", none of this would be happening.

[Brody]

Context is everything. It might be wrong to call a woman a cunt to her face for no good reason; it stretches political correctness to the point of insanity to become upset about a throw away comment on a message board for men with a male foot fetish.

[ftlaudft]

Brody, I couldn't agree with you more. For a foot fetish group we're spending an awful lotta time talking about pussy. Thanks for your positive post about malefeet's stills. Your comments were among the few that actually addressed what he way trying to offer us.

Iluvfeet, I understand that you find the word "'cunt"' offensive and I accept that. It simply doesn't bother me and I hope you can accept that. We disagree and that shouldn't bother either of us. Are you with me so far?

What does bother me is that our disagreement ruined a thread. It really brought it down until the moderator had to step in and close it. If you think about it, I'm sure it will bother you too.

Perhaps all of us (you, me, the others who posted) should consider, not whether we were right or wrong, but rather how we could have avoided the unpleasantness that damaged the thread. We all defended our points of view flamingly. And the guy who tried to use a slang term humorously saw his work get lost in the shuffle.

I just posted a paragraph on the remake of a song by a beautiful singer named Armi. She was a real knockout, but she had a drinking problem and went to an early grave. In an early post of "'I wanna love you tender"' an American commented that in this country a trip to our rehab facilities might have saved her. Some posters over there jumped all over the American, saÿing "'You Americans think you have all the answers, you goddam Americans"' and went on and on in a very ugly outburst without any justification. The result? The guy who posted the video withdrew it. Fortunately there are many others that are now available from old European TV, but my point is that ugly attacks, whether justified or not, will have negative consequences.

[iluvfeet12]

What does bother me is that our disagreement ruined a thread. It really brought it down until the moderator had to step in and close it. If you think about it, I'm sure it will bother you too.


That's honestly not the way I see it, personally. I feel like the person ruined his thread in the first place by using such word. I think that when you use a word that is generally known as vulgar and offensive, you should also face the consequences. Even if you don't feel offended by it personally, you can't deny the fact that this word is seen by most as an offensive insult when used to refer to a woman.

I don't see why the blame should fall back on everyone who commented that his choice of word was inappropriate. Would he have picked a different, neutral word to begin with, and there would never even have been something to complain about.

The way I see it, what was ugly was the choice of word used in the first post. Not the people who said "Why did you have to insult the woman?". There were pretty much no personal attacks there. What was ugly about this discussion?

And I don't see why a forum where men are the target audience should refrain from showing some respect. Sure, the chances of any woman ever reading these boards are slim to none, is that really an excuse, though? I could say that I doubt a lot of Chinese people read these boards, but does that mean I could make racial slurs and get away with it?

The real issue is respect in general. If it's okay to insult a gender, where does it stop? There needs to be certain guidelines, because as you said, we are all adults here. We're not some teenagers trying to throw in as many slang in their vocabulary as they can to make themselves look "cool". There shouldn't be any reason to refer to anyone, regardless of who they might be, with this kind of vocabulary.

[ftlaudft]

There's no point in discussing this further. Let's go look at the pretty pictures.

[iluvfeet12]

There's no point in discussing this further.

Why? It's obvious that we don't see this the same way, and I don't think we should let the issue go just because we can't reach a middle ground. I'll simplify my point of view.

If someone was to post a picture of a man saying "Look at that motherfuckin' asshole's feet! Hawt!", do you really think people on the board would not have reacted the same way we did, by asking why the guy had to be insulted for no reason? That's all I'm saying.

[Brody]

A lot of women find the term "girl" insulting and demeaning when it is used to describe a grown woman.

[Head2Foot]

A lot of women find the term "girl" insulting and demeaning when it is used to describe a grown woman. In today's world, people are ultra-sensitive about language, especially when related to race, gender, ethnicity, and religion. It can be a confusing situation for many people. For example, African-American women can freely call each other "girl," but bristle when one of their white contemporaries uses the term with them. We now use the term "N-word" even though it immediately brings the word-being-substituted to mind. And yet African-Americans can use the avoided word with each other. That's much the same as gay men using the term "faggot" with each other, even though it's recently become a no-no for anyone else to use.

So it's not surprising that we have this clash of viewpoints over the word "cunt." Iluvfeet12, you and Ftlaudft have each reasonably stated your opinion on the use of the word. Ftlaudft feels there is nowhere else to go with the discussion since neither of you appears to be changing your stance (whether wide or narrow).

One more thought on the use of words. We have just seen major headlines and countless discussions continuing for the past few weeks, all centered on the utterance of one particular word and its repercussions. The word? "Stupidly." It's really such a common word, usually freely thrown about -- it isn't loaded the way "cunt" is -- but in this case the word took on much greated importance. It was the wrong word in the wrong situation.

[iluvfeet12]

So it's not surprising that we have this clash of viewpoints over the word "cunt." Iluvfeet12, you and Ftlaudft have each reasonably stated your opinion on the use of the word. Ftlaudft feels there is nowhere else to go with the discussion since neither of you appears to be changing your stance (whether wide or narrow).





My point, however, is not about just about the word "cunt". It's about the lack of context for a word that is known to be an insult. That's what I mean by choice of word. He could have used a neutral word.

As I was pointing out in my previous post, if the same thing would have happened with the man being insulted, you would have seen just as many people pointing out that it was inappropriate.

When gay men call themselves faggot between themselves, there's a certain context. They wouldn't go up to a random person and call them a fag just for the fun of it. They do so when they know everyone they call this way is comfortable with the word.

In this specific case, there was no context. That, to me, is why it was inappropriate. It's not about "do women insult each other", or "is this a woman-hating person", it's simply about the fact that an insulting word was used in a context that didn't call for it, and people who voiced their opinion on the matter should not be feeling bad for doing so.

[Brody]

My point, however, is not about just about the word "cunt". It's about the lack of context for a word that is known to be an insult. That's what I mean by choice of word. He could have used a neutral word.

As I was pointing out in my previous post, if the same thing would have happened with the man being insulted, you would have seen just as many people pointing out that it was inappropriate.

When gay men call themselves faggot between themselves, there's a certain context. They wouldn't go up to a random person and call them a fag just for the fun of it. They do so when they know everyone they call this way is comfortable with the word.

In this specific case, there was no context. That, to me, is why it was inappropriate. It's not about "do women insult each other", or "is this a woman-hating person", it's simply about the fact that an insulting word was used in a context that didn't call for it, and people who voiced their opinion on the matter should not be feeling bad for doing so.

Context is everything. In this specific case, the poster made an offhand comment about---not to---an anonymous woman on a message board for men with a male foot fetish. That's the context. Once people start deciding what is appropriate language for others, the world becomes a rigid and chilled place.

You suggested the poster should have used the term "girl". That term is offensive to many women when used to describe a grown woman. It's a slippery slope when people try to impose their own sensibilities on others

The moderators have a right to take down anything they find offensive or off-topic. As participants in this forum, we have a responsibility to post comments or photos about male feet. It is inappropriate to post the kinds of complaints posted on the section of the forum reserved for photos of male feet. If someone feels strongly about the use of a term, I would suggest the appropriate action is to email the moderator or to start a discussion in this section. I don't visit the site to read the kinds of off-topic discussions in the photo section generated by a guy contributing some very nice photos.

[tenchichan]

I really dislike the attitude being thrown around by the members of this board concerning this issue. A few people speak up to point out that use of the word "cunt" when directly referring to a woman is pretty offensive and shouldn't be thrown around so lightly and it's the people speaking up that are martyred.

And all of this coming from a predominantly gay message board as well.

SHAME on you!

If this was a message board for women's feet and someone described a guy in the picture as a "faggot" I'm thinking you'd want someone to speak up and say "Hey, keep the hate speech to a minimum. I came here for feet, not for a gay-bashing."

I'm just shocked at how utterly clueless some of this board's members are when it comes to that kind of stuff. You cannot ask for respect unless you're willing to bestow it upon others as well.

And for the record, this is a community here. This isn't just someone's personal website where they can post and say whatever they like. A community has to be run with the community's best interest in mind, and if a percentage of that community has a problem with something, it shouldn't be just swept under the rug or deemed "inappropriate" because it was posted alongside nice pictures.

I will speak out the next time something like this happens and I'll keep doing so until someone bans me.

[iluvfeet12]

You suggested the poster should have used the term "girl". That term is offensive to many women when used to describe a grown woman. It's a slippery slope when people try to impose their own sensibilities on others

That's twisting my words. I said countless times "a neutral word", "woman", "girl". You choose to specifically stick on the word girl by saying "well, gee, that's offensive too" instead of focusing on the general point that there were far less offensive words that could have been picked.

Go to a grown woman and ask her what she'd prefer to be called, cunt or girl, and I doubt she'd get upset about being called a girl.

[Brody]

[QUOTE Would calling her a girl have been that much to ask?

Let's be clear. I twisted no words--I quoted you.

The point is not the relative offensiveness of a given word.(Some women find the term girl offensive, some women insist on spelling the word "womyn", some find bitch problematic) The point is once you start dictating speech based on your own personal standard, you create a chilling effect on discussion. That's why the First Amendment of the United States Constitution limits the Federal government from prohibiting speech that someone might find offensive. The same goes here. There is of course no Constitutional protection in that the moderators can restrict any speech they like. But keep in mind, if you start using the personally offensive standard you never know where you will end up. I do know there are plenty of people out there that would love to see entire sites like this one shut down because they are personally offended by its existence.

And really--"shame on you" (in all caps, yet); Martyred? C'mon!

[iluvfeet12]

[QUOTE Would calling her a girl have been that much to ask?

Let's be clear. I twisted no words--I quoted you.



No, you quoted one part of what I said and ignored the rest where I gave other examples of how he could have referred to her. You are making it as if the only suggestion I gave was calling her a girl when that's not the case.

And since when are we talking about personal standards? The word "cunt" is known to be a word that is often censored, as opposed to "girl". It's not like we're making the offensiveness of the word up.

All I'm saying is that there's no need to go for the big bad words just for something so trivial. Who are we trying to impress? If the focus is on the man anyways in the pictures, why even go out of your way and refer to the woman at all?

Just forget the woman side of the issue for a second. Would it really be okay if we all started to refer to each other as "motherfuckers"? If every single post was "look at that asshole's feet", and "that dickhead looks hot", would that really that great? I don't mind slang. Hell, when I'm with my friends, I swear like a sailor. But this is a public place. Why throw in random words like that? Why call people "cunts" just for the heck of it?

[Tklduuude]

Reduction of any person, or group of persons, to a derogatory label is a pathway best to be avoided.

The double offense is to reduce an integral person to a body part.

Consider the option that some posters were reacting to over half the world's population being treated in such a manner.

[flickfire]

I agree with you iluvfeet. The word just didn't have to be used. He could have easily said something else if he didn't like the woman in the pic. I think most of the people on this board found it offensive, and rightfully so!!

There wouldn't be any controversy here on this board if the word had simply not been used.

[vegasguy]

wow, I can't believe this is still going on for almost 10 days!! Too funny.....................

[Head2Foot]

Interesting opinion article on "the C-word" in Newsweek:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/214218