homo-hopes versus pious baloney

[ftlaudft]

Have you heard the latest attacks by politicos and religious leaders on our desire to mate and have marriage equality? We will be the ruination of humanity!

Who said so? God did! Where? In the Bible, of course! What should we do? We should return to the examples established thousands of years ago by the great patriarchs of old. Consider the models of Jacob, David and Solomon.

Jacob is an example I'm not sure I want to follow. The poor bastard slaved fourteen years in order to acquire two wives and two concubines! Two wives! Two concubines! And all I'm asking for is one dude!

Then there's Solomon. 700 wives! 300 concubines! Now, how am I supposed to keep up with that? Maybe guys in those days had a little more testosterone than we do, but even if I had sex every day on my coffee breaks, lunch breaks and news breaks, I doubt if I could keep up with them. Nor would I want to. 700 wives? I'd trade 'em all for one good man!

I don't really trust the moral authority of Washington, Rome, Canterbury or anywhere else. It seems sometimes that the truth is closer to home than I may have thought and humbler folk like Lady Gaga have come out with a much deeper reality: we were born that way, and God makes no mistakes.

[ftlaudft]

I have great homo-hopes for our community. I am deeply moved by and grateful to friends of our community like Hillary Clinton, friends who boldly challenge injustices and fight for the basic rights of gays all over the globe. I am also troubled by GOP candidates and many religious leaders who try to overturn marriage-equality rights where they exist. What troubles is the lack of concern for people as people, the lack of humanity, the lack of love. I wonder if any of them knows what it is to have or to be a friend.

A site for friends of Henri Nouwen, A Dutch priest who died in 1996 and left behind volumes of brilliant thoughts, recently offered the following meditation on the gift of friendship

Friendship is one of the greatest gifts a human being can receive. It is a bond beyond common goals, common interests, or common histories. It is a bond stronger than sexual union can create, deeper than a shared fate can solidify, and even more intimate than the bonds of marriage or community. Friendship is being with the other in joy and sorrow, even when we cannot increase the joy or decrease the sorrow. It is a unity of souls that gives nobility and sincerity to love. Friendship makes all of life shine brightly. Blessed are those who lay down their lives for their friends.

When I read these words of Fr Henri, I ask myself how I can be a better friend to our community, to our gay community, to our footbuddy community. How can we be better friends to those who are not our friends? How can we show more meaningfully that we are grateful to those who are?

[flickfire]

The religious bigots on our society are such hypocrites that it´s beyond funny. So many of
them have the mentality ¨do as I say, not as I do¨. It´s no wonder why more and more
people choose not to go to church, with the sex scandals, and all.

I personally think religion will always have an important place in our society for various
reasons, but as time passes, I do think that the church´s importance will diminish because
people will know that they can live happy and fulfilled lives without being connected
to God and religion.

I think the number of atheists and agnostics in your society has and will continue to grow
and rise, especially among young people, which I don´t is necessarily a bad thing.


It´s good to think for yourself, and form your own views about life without being told how
to think and feel because of what´s inside an old book.

[ftlaudft]

Thanks for your thoughts, Flickfire. I think I agree with your ideas, but I probably would word them differently, since each individual has to view things from his own angle and experience. I know what you mean when you feel that young people are leaving God and religion, but I see the situation as one in which young people are abandoning an old definition of God and looking for whatever God may mean in another way. I don't see them as leaving relgion so much as I see them leaving an older form of formal religion and looking for real religious/life meaning in the living of life itselff

Most of us grew up with the notion that we're down here and God (whatever that is) is way up there somewhere. But the Hindus feel that there's no distinction between the Creator (what we call God) and the creation/created matter (that's us down here). They think that we're all one. That means you and I and God and creatures are one/divine/God/being.

Jesus didn't come to teach us how to build pretty chuches. He came to teach us Life. And not Life in a misty hereafter. I think He means Life here and now. So if people stop going to a particular building because they feel it isn't helping them live fully, maybe they are discovering that the whole world is where we can live fully as we learn to love ourselves and others.

I love some of the old hymns. But if young people want to sing a new song, they're not necessarily giving up on music. They're looking for a new and better tune. More power to them!

[Bobo]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Although same-sex marriage is legal here in Canada. I could not believe what the Pope had said recently concerning same-sex marriage. You are right. God and/or the Universe does not make mistakes. Love yourself, take care of yourself and be good to others. That's the secret to a happy life.
Bobo.

[SnowFanatic]

I don't have anything else to add, just wanted to say that I couldn't agree more with your wonderful, smart and noble thoughts.


What troubles is the lack of concern for people as people, the lack of humanity, the lack of love.

This couldn't be more true...and more sad at the same time. :/

[ftlaudft]

Thanks for your good words, Bobo and SnowFanatic. You brighten a fella's day!

[vegasguy]

I don't think people are leaving God, but I do believe they are leaving religion and in my opinion, they are not the same. I for one have been a non practicing cathelic (sp?) for well over 30 years, but I believe in God, Jesus and the Blessed Mother totally and devoutly, pray to them daily for guidance, yet I never step foot in a church, and never will again!

[ftlaudft]

I think each of us may want to make his own definitions of God, Jesus, the Blessed Mother. I don't mean a dictionary definition. I mean, we may want to ask the question, ""What does God mean - what does God mean TO ME, in my life, in my relationships."" And we never have to come up with identical answers.

For me, God can never be defined in human language with word tools. Words can only suggest. God to me doesn't mean a shadowy grandfather figure up there somewher. I think more of Divine Being as a Sea of All Being, which includes you and me and all living creatures, past, present and future.

When I light candles before an icon of the Blessed Mother, who is the person I'm talking with? I believe that Mary, mother of Jesus, was a real historical person. But she's so much more than that. She points to and is the physical embodiment of the wisdom energy and the feminine tenderness in the Sea of All Being I see as God. When I ask for healing for sick friends or simply meditate in front of a picture of Mary, I am in contact with the divine healing energy of this Sea of All Being.

Can I prove any of this? No. Do I expect it to make sense to everybody? Probably not. Do I think this divine energy from an undefinable source that I can't explain works constant cures and wonders? You betcha!

[ftlaudft]

When we consider our beliefs and how they fit in our lives, we may want to consider not only the areas of work, love and play but still another area: politics. I'm alarmed when I hear the Republican candidates blast Obama with their united call to "'get this one-term president out of the White House."'

When Santorum attacked the "phony theology"" of Obama, I lost all possibility of respect for him. I've listened to his views on contraceptives and homosexuality and realize he feels that he and he alone is right. Since he is right, and error has no rights, he wants to impose his value system on the whole nation. And he's not the only one who would like to lead us back to the 12th century.

When I watch Romney roll his eyes and rave and rant against Obama, it helps me understand something. I've wondered why Mormons spent thousands and thousands of dollars in their campaign to put through Proposition 8 in California (the one that was just declared unconsitutional) when there are so few Mormons in California. I see Romney and now I know what kind of person would do that.

And then there's Gingrich. Lord have mercy!

The candidates have spoken very clearly about what they believe and we must anticipate what the consequences would be if any of them should gain control. Their attacks on each other and Obama have given me lots of good laughs on the shows of the late nite comics. But our gains as gay people, as human gay people, are not a laughing matter.

As a Prgressive Protestant who is a member of a Lutheran church, I can't claim to know many of the answers. I know if I sat down at an ecumenical meeting of people from many faiths, I probably would agree much more quickly with the Hindus and Buddhists than with Dr Luther's Catechism. But I keep looking for ways to ask better questions and listen to what others are saying. I've been listening to the GOP candidates and I'm really scared.

[TheWolf9]

I agree with this:

[ftlaudft]

The term marriage seems to lead to dead-end discussions and fights that no one will ever win. If the government insisted on civil unions, and civil unions only, for all couples, straight and gay, then the government would be able to work out fairer plans for taxation of couples and other legal protections for all couples, straight and gay. If any couple wanted a religious ceremony of any kind, they could have it performed in their church or temple or mosque, or they could even run up a mountain in goatskins and dance naked in the light of the moon, if that's what they wanted.

I believe in separation of church and state. That means ALL churches, and includes a church a candidate might feel has exclusive absolute truth. Have people forgotten the horrors of the Inquisition? The trial of Galileo? The Massacre of St. Batholomew.s Day when the Seine in Paris ran red with the blood of the slaughtered French Protestants?

[ftlaudft]

Did anyone see Billy Graham's son Franklin Graham on TV as he piously insinuated that Obama is a secret Muslim? When people stand by and quietly support lies, they themselves are guilty of a greater crime. Billy Graham was such a great spiritual leader. How did he manage to produce such a pile of pious crap for a son?

What bothers me the most is the idea that being Muslim is being something bad. Even if a president or a senator or a governor were a Muslim, SO WHAT? Muslim does not mean terrorist or murderer or satan worhiper. Islam is one of the world's great faiths and the contributions of Islam are many. Sufi mystics have given great literature and philosophy. The Prophet himself was a great reformer of social systems, and contrary to popular belief, introduced changes to offer women protection that didn't exist before. To portray Islam as synonymous with something bad and then stand slyly by while insinuating that someone may indeed be a member of this group is utterly reprehensible.

Most of us have been shocked by the scandals in the Roman Catholic Church. But even those of us with no respect for Benedict and other church political figures still have endless admiration for greats like Mother Teresa of Calcutta, protectors of the Indians like Bartolomé de las Casas, and the mighty ocean of nameless teachers, nurses, and caregivers to the aged and orphans. For many of us, these ARE the Catholic Church.

Franklin Graham gives Potestants such a bad name. Although he believes Santorum is a Christian and said so, he said he can't say the same for Obama. He said his definition of a Christian is a person who has given himself to Jesus and has had his sins washed in the blood of the Lamb. Well, now! He really should read what leaders such as Bishop Spong, (retired Episcopalian bishop) have to say about original sin. Since man is a product of evolution and we are still moving forward on the evolutionary scale, man cannot have fallen off a state of perfection to which he never belonged.

Listening to Franklin was such a disappointment. But at least I understand a little better why so many young people have stopped going to church.

[renaudlouis]

Homosexuality becomes only a moral issue when religious people force their views and opionions on people like myself. I know in reality that there is no god and I am not so sure if there was he would be like the gods of the present day. He is an angry, jealous, just, punishing and loving god. I cannot believe that anyone with a 3rd grade education could buy into these theologies of Christianity or Jewish or Muslim. And have you noticed that all of them are the one true faith. I am guessing that the answer to that is none of them are correct. Why do these pyseudo religious have such a fear and loathing of gays. I think it is clear that all their fear and hatred comes from the books of their faiths. Marriage of two people is not a religious rite, it is a rite granted byu the states. If you get married and do not get the legal documents you are not married in the eyes of the government. So it is our right to be allowed to marry each other because it is just and proper. A day is coming in the near future when these faiths will dry up because people are sick of the lies that religion teaches.. It is sad the brainwashing begins at the earliest ages of the youth. We learned that Santa Clause was not real when will everyone learn god is a man made being to make people all think the same way so no one gets out of hand....LMFAO

[TheWolf9]

Homosexuality becomes only a moral issue when religious people force their views and opionions on people like myself. I know in reality that there is no god and I am not so sure if there was he would be like the gods of the present day. He is an angry, jealous, just, punishing and loving god. I cannot believe that anyone with a 3rd grade education could buy into these theologies of Christianity or Jewish or Muslim. And have you noticed that all of them are the one true faith. I am guessing that the answer to that is none of them are correct. Why do these pyseudo religious have such a fear and loathing of gays. I think it is clear that all their fear and hatred comes from the books of their faiths. Marriage of two people is not a religious rite, it is a rite granted byu the states. If you get married and do not get the legal documents you are not married in the eyes of the government. So it is our right to be allowed to marry each other because it is just and proper. A day is coming in the near future when these faiths will dry up because people are sick of the lies that religion teaches.. It is sad the brainwashing begins at the earliest ages of the youth. We learned that Santa Clause was not real when will everyone learn god is a man made being to make people all think the same way so no one gets out of hand....LMFAO


As a Muslim, we have a saying in Islam called "You can have your religion and I have mine".


Personally, I'm proud to be a Muslim and do my best to live my life.

[ftlaudft]

Renaud, I certainly understand your dismay and disappointment at many devout believers in all the major faiths who assume that they and they alone possess absolute truth and all the rest of us are nincompoops. But it's been my more positive experience that in all the major faiths I have found people, like me, who do not claim to spout absolute truth every time they open their mouth. We are seekers. Yes, I go to a particular church, and like Wolfie I am happy to have grown up in a particular tradition and to have learned from what it had to offer. But although I go to a Lutheran church, I have to point out that at a gathering of seekers I would be sitting with the Hindus and the Buddhists and would be learning from them answers to my questions, answers that I do not find in a Lutheran catechism.

I think it's wise to be careful not to dump all people in one group into the same basket. Look at Mother Theresa and the Grand Inquisitor. Which one really respresents the best of Roman Catholicism? Which one would we do well to imitate? Did Mother Theresa ever claim to have all the answers?

It is important, as you point out, not to dictate to the world and to impose on others what you may feel to be the truth. But all of us do well to continue to continue to look for truth, to be seekers of truth. I personally feel that with each year I have fewer answers and more questions. But I have grown to accept that love somehow is the final answer and that's how we should live. The Easter Bunny and Santa have fallen by the wayside, and the old definitions of a nasty old man in the attic with terrible temper tantrums no longer fits a definition of God. But was that the only option? Look at what the new generation of Progressive Christians are saying. Read a little from the scholars of the ancient Hindu scriptures. See what the Buddhists have to say about how we should live. A lot of wonderful people have looked for answers that may be very useful to us in our search. It's a great life. Keep seeking.

[BootsMcGraw]

....I know in reality that there is no god....
What a truly sad life you must have, to have no hope for anything beyond the end of your nose and the end of your years.

Those who are truly "of faith" are so because of a living, breathing relationship with a real Being. Those who think otherwise do so because of what they've been taught via the various godless media, not because of any actual knowledge or experience they obtained on their own.

In short, only the people who have never tried to establish a relationship with the Creator say there is no Creator.

[ftlaudft]

Boots, when you talk about a "living, breathing relationship with a real Being"' I think immediately of an Irish nun who crossed my path many years ago. This radiant but humble woman was a true reflection of Divine Light. She radiated goodness and kindness and the joy of God wherever she went.

Yet we almost never talked about religion or compared catechisms. She had more important work to do. People. Troubled people. Her students and wards who needed her help. And so she lived her wonderful life, a sermon without words!

I learn a lot from great modern theologians like Paul Tillich and a whole new generation of thinkers. But what really has touched my life is the example of this God-filled woman who gave her life so joyfully to the service of others.

I remain a very happy seeker. From the example of the cloud of witnesses around me, I know that anyone who begins to seek God has already in his heart of hearts found Him.

[ftlaudft]

Yesterday I had to miss church because I had a sugar high. I'm Lutheran and I do respect Martin Luther as a reformer. (But I'm not hardcore Lutheran. How can you trust a man who runs around hammering nails in beautul old church doors?)

So I used the computer to listen to a sermon from Sunshine Cathedral here in Ft Lauderdale and it really touched me. At a time when so many religious leaders are knocking gay rights and trying to push equality back into the Middle Ages, it was very refreshing. The minister talked about a trip he made to Jamaica, during which he visited an AIDS hospice. He visited a young man who was dying there, a man never visited by any priest or minister or deacon. The fellow, who was too weak to sit up, grabbed the pastor's hand and didn't want to let go. In his own words, Rev Dr Watkins describes the scene as follows:

He couldn't stand or sit up or feed himself, or even really talk, but somehow he managed the strength to hold on to my hand as if he hoped I might be able to lift him up to a new level of life. But I couldn't

He had heard that God had abandoned him because he was gay. But all that religious condemnation only added to his suffering. It didn't make him well. It didn't make him more spiritual. It didn't make him wiser or stronger or more loving.. It just made him feel unsafe in this world and frightened of the next one as well.

Yes, guilt and shame and finger pointing and wrist slapping and name calling only made a life that was cut too short suffer more than it had to. And a moment of affirmation and kindness brougt him something that meant so much to him that he literally did not want to let go. In that sacred moment, this church that said we'll stand with our friends in Jamaica was following Jesus and unleashing miracles.

At the end of his sermon, Rev Watkins says, "'We will continue to bless and heal the world around us."'

I say Amen!