what would you do?

[eagle024]

So I had an unexpected interaction with my friend (more about him here http://www.footbuddies.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4287&highlight=buddy%27s+size) at a bar last night, and I’m not sure what to make of it. We were having what I believe was our 5th beer of the night and in the middle of a great “buddies chat” about life, careers, family, etc. At one point, I just looked at him and said, “and just how is it that you haven’t got a girlfriend?” He was quiet for a couple seconds, looked out into the bar, not at me, said “maybe I’m gay?” After a couple seconds silence, I think I responded, “ok” or something like that, and he followed up with a comment about not wanting to be tied down right now, etc. The conversation moved on to other stuff from there.

Now, here I am the next day and I can’t stop thinking about this conversation and whether he meant what he said. We do share sarcastic banter regularly, but we weren’t really in that mode while we were talking. The way he was looking away from me made it seem like he was uncomfortable. His tone was somewhere between a question and a statement.

I should mention that I consider myself bi, but am private about it and have never acted on it. I am also head over heels about this friend, and I could very easily be inventing a fantasy from a casual joke. I have never had any reason to believe he was gay (e.g. stories about hooking up with girls, etc.) but I’ve also seen him act more open than lots of guys. One time, when we at a bar and drinking way more than we did last night, I brazenly grabbed his shoulders and started massaging them. Whereas most guys I know would probably act freaked out or tell me to stop- he said “that feels good.”

I suppose the hard/right thing to do would be to ask him if he was serious or not and to share my own story. But I really don’t want to mess up our friendship and create any distance. Even setting aside my feelings for him, I really value his friendship. If he is straight, I’m fairly sure that he’d find it a bit awkward that I might think he was gay. And no matter how much I divulge about myself, I’m pretty sure that it would be clear how I felt about him when he re-evaluates past clues (i.e. the shoulder rub incident)…

As an aside, he was wearing some gorgeous new sneakers on his size 13s that I wanted to rip off his paws the whole night…

[Freyr]

Here's my $0.02. You can follow up on his comment in the next few days, when you two are in some private space and tell him something like this: "Dude, what you said last night about maybe being gay. Well, it doesn't matter to me one way or the other, you're still my buddy and my friend. If you want to talk about it more, I'm here for you."

He'll either laugh it off, say something non-commital like "thanks" and never bring it up again or open up to you.

Where you go from there is up to you. G'luck either way. I'd be careful about trying anything with his feet should he open up to you. Let this new aspect of your friendship develop before you two jump into bed with each other. Yes, sex does change the friendship, often radically. Just be ready for that, too.

[tiedfeetguy]

^What he said. And if you're comfortable enough, you can also add that you yourself have had gay/bi thoughts before, and don't think it's any big deal.

[eagle024]

Thanks guys. You are helping me to remember that this conversation needs to be about him, not me. So I should focus on his situation, not mine (at least at first). Also, if he does happen to be gay or bi, he may not be interested in me that way - he could just be talking to me as someone who he feels he can confide in.

I guess the key is to try to balance the seriousness - serious enough for him to know I am focused on his welfare but not so serious that he thinks I am plotting to seduce him...

[drummer]

You know, it isn't really necessary for him to register with a party one way or the other.

The REAL question is what, if anything, is going to happen between you and him, and it really doesn't matter whether you consider yourself straight or gay or bi, or whether he does. No matter how you regard your respective allegiances to any set of tastes in sex and romance, if he likes having you (say) massage his shoulders, or caress his feet, or kiss him, or hug him, or masturbate him--that's really pretty independent of any way he might choose to classify himself. He's allowed to make an exception for you, if he feels like it, even if he'd never consider any other male with that degree of intimacy.

[eagle024]

So I saw my friend today and decided it was "now or never" as far as addressing this- the longer i waited, the more it would seem like I was dwelling on it. We were in a work setting for most of the day and I was totally unwilling to broach the subject there. Fortunately, he ended up giving me a ride home so I decided to use that opportunity (however suboptimal it was) to bring it up.

Basically, I said "I've gotta bring up something important." He just looked at me and nodded. I then said "the other night at the bar, you said "maybe I'm gay." At this point, he started laughing. By then, I pretty much had my answer but finished "I just want to be clear on whether that was a serious statement or a joke." As he kept laughing, he said "a joke...I'm straight as an arrow!"

Well, I then briefly explained why I needed to clarify this with him. I said "I had no reason to believe you were gay, but a long time ago, I had a similar conversation with another friend, who actually was trying to come out to me and I didn't react like I wish I had and I didn't want to risk doing that twice ...so I just hope you know if there was every anything serious like that going on, that you could talk to me and I would support you all the way."

He started asking me a few questions about the situation with my old friend (that was something that really did happen) and he seemed interested in what had happened.

After he dropped me off, I was of course worried about him being weirded out. Could it have raised some questions in his mind about whether I'm entirely straight? Maybe. But not two hours later, he called me on the phone about something totally unrelated, and I suspect that might not have happened if that idea, or this conversation, bothered him. Maybe it'll even turn out to be a trust building moment.

So I'm glad I brought it up. Even if the outcome might be a bit disappointing!

[eagle024]

Hey guys,

I had to revive this old thread to tell a bit more about this story with my friend. A couple of days ago, we drove down to a summer home I own to do some work. It was just the two of us. I made him take off his shoes when we got to the house – mostly because I just installed new floors, but I’ll admit I also wanted to ogle his socked feet (which he thinks may still be growing as they are now seemingly filling up some size 14 sneakers!)

Anyways, I got so turned on that I found myself snapping pix of his feet while he was involved in some repair work. At one point, I think he may have even seen my camera app open – though I tried to play it off that I was just photographing these nuisance door hinges he was tightening in case I had to do it again myself at some point. Either way, he didn’t seem phased by it.

However, as we tried to finish up the door project, I had to basically crawl down on the floor to try and fit the door into a bracket while he worked on the upper brackets. My face and hands were within inches of his feet at this point. Then a couple of times, he lifted his foot as if to use it to brace the door – except one of the times his instep slid right across my palm. And then a second time, he seemed to rub his toes right on my fingers. It took every ounce of restraint I had not to collapse on his foot right there. I obviously could not see the look on his face from where I was and neither of us mentioned it afterwards. It’s hard to explain, but my hand was really nowhere near the door when either incident happened.

Could this all be a freakish coincidence? Did he figure me out? Towards the end of the day, he even lifted his shirt a couple of times up towards his chest – not sure if it was to scratch an itch or what, but he would have to be blind not to have noticed that I was noticing.

On the way home, we ended up talking about girls and relationship issues quite a bit (just a reminder – I consider myself bi but am not open about it). He was talking about this girl he has “hooked up with” a couple of times. Though it doesn’t seem he has actually had sex with her. He kept talking about how he wasn’t sure if she was really interested in him or even “what he really wants.”

I am so tempted to be honest with him about myself and see how he reacts. As I mentioned in a prior post, he has said he is “100% straight.” But I say that all the time too… But, to use a foot analogy, I suspect I am forcing a foot into a shoe that I want to fit. I really don’t want to screw up this friendship…then again, my blatant interest in his feet may become (or even already be) clear to him.

Just wondering what you would do – if anything. I could stay quiet, could tell him I’m bi but leave out the foot part, or just throw everything out there. I suppose if I say anything at all, the question of my interest in him would come up, then…

Ugh!

[harryjav]

I believe that it would be best to just do nothing. Staying quiet, I feel, is the best option. I do not think that there is enough "evidence" for me to dare divulge the bi part, much less the feet part -- I would not dare risk the friendship aspect at this point in time. Give things more time; accumulate more "evidence", try to stop reading too much into his actions, just let go now and let be first. I feel that the more important thing to let happen is for him to be more and more comfortable with you so that he will be more and more his natural self. Only then can you better assess if and when -- if ever -- you can start to divulge more about yourself and go from there. Time will also help you get a better feel if the friendship aspect is really something you will not be willing to take a chance on at all.

I would, maybe, try to enjoy or get to view his feet more in as natural a manner as possible -- hoping to get to see his bare feet -- say, in a pool or beach area. If a guy is "straight as an arrow" my experience is that they will never think of another "regular" guy as having a foot fetish for a person of the same sex. Women's feet, perhaps, can be objects of affection but not male feet -- this is the usual male perspective.

I know some guys for whom the attractiveness of the feet is so important that if they discover that a guy they are turned on to has disappointing feet, then they lose all sexual urges for the man and can just have a regular friendship. Will this be the case with him for you?

In my case, I have a dear good-looking friend and I HAVE seen his feet bare AND they are as beautiful as I hoped they would be, as well groomed as I wanted them to be. I have also seen him in the act of taking off his shoes and socks to note that he had sweaty feet that would look steamed-up and pink when freshly bared -- a big, big sexual turn on for me. He even casually mentioned, "My feet sweat a lot" and hearing this made me palpitate.

BUT, because of our friendship, I have not at all dared open up to him about his feet, about how I ardently want to caress and make love to his feet, and how I am really gay when I come across as straight. I have been tempted, I have longed to do so but, somehow, our friendship is more important than even this strongest of lust for him and his feet. So I continue nurturing our friendship and just hope to get occasional chances to get to see his feet.

[eagle024]

I know some guys for whom the attractiveness of the feet is so important that if they discover that a guy they are turned on to has disappointing feet, then they lose all sexual urges for the man and can just have a regular friendship. Will this be the case with him for you?



Thanks for the input. I tend to agree with you that keeping this to myself is the sensible choice. But to your point about his bare feet...I have seen them many times, and even managed to touch them last summer, and they are gorgeous!

The thing is - I feel like my friendship with him, which appears strong on the surface, is not authentic - that I'm hiding a part of me and some pretty intense feelings. I don't even really want to have typical sex with him. I'd be amazed just to have a close encounter below the ankles! Well, I'm glad to keep discussing with anyone who wants to chime in...

[harryjav]

In my case -- my dearest and best friends from both sexes do NOT know about my being gay yet I believe that I have very strong and deep relationships with them; everyone has secrets and friendships, i believe, do not really become stronger just because one has bared everything. Despite my non-disclosure of my sexual orientation, I have connected deeply with my friends on so many levels and aspects.

[blablablabla]

friendships, i believe, do not really become stronger just because one has bared everything.

I agree with this completely, and I think this is the key to your problem here. The philosophy of being totally honest and sharing your deepest secrets is nice on paper, but it just doesn't work that way in reality.

Being bi is one thing, wanting to caress his feet is kind of a different story. If he really is straight as an arrow, I doubt he'd be interested in your sexual desires. From what I read, it's just not that kind of friendship you 2 are having.

I'd play the waiting game in your case. If anything, you could carefully hint that you're bisexual, but definitely let that sink in first before you talk about his feet. But since you're not entirely convinced he's "straight as an arrow", I think you're better off getting more information, because IF he is gay/bi himself, it will make your life so much easier.

Definitely keep us up to date too, I like your story :).

[Gyronemo]

Eagle. Dude. Your story goes straight to my heart, for I have been in a very similar position to yourself. It’s quite a long story, but I hope that perhaps you’ll benefit from hearing it (you seem pretty open and receptive to what others have shared here, which is great); I know I could’ve used someone to relate to when I was going through what I went through.

I fell quite madly in love with my best guy friend when I was around 17. Up to that time, I believed I was straight, but simply had a sexual fascination with men’s feet. My attraction to my best friend caused me to realize that I am, in fact, gay.

In tandem with that realization, my parents noticed that I was spending a lot more time with my friends, and so I came out to them, explaining that I had fallen for my best friend and was taking every opportunity I could to see him. My parents, being extremely accepting, understood the situation, but encouraged me to not come out to my friend at that time, as they didn’t think he would be able to handle it (he was about three years younger than I); in fact, my parents suggested all of us get a better education on homosexuality and how to approach coming out before I went ahead further with coming out to others.
Because, as you probably guessed from this, I had no idea if my best friend was straight or gay.

Let me tell you a bit about my friend. He always seemed a bit lost, personality-wise; more of a follower than a leader. He was very shy until I met him; many of our mutual friends, as well as his parents, credit me for having helped to break his shell, but he remained fairly meek and soft-spoken, and he was most definitely a nerd (I also consider myself a nerd, which helped us get along even more famously). He had a sister who he was very attached to, as they had both been homeschooled for all of their lives. Physically speaking, he was nearly 6’0’’ at the time, slender, quite pale, beautiful bluish/greenish eyes, wore glasses that he acquired later (another turn-on in my book), he always dressed very nicely (like myself), had a pretty adorable grin, and his feet were notably small for his height (they were only 8.5s). I usually go for larger feet, and I had hoped his would be big (his dad had rather impressive feet; never found out the size, but they were HUGE). However, his toes were long and the build of his feet were very slender, which were enough to turn me on. And my goodness, did he show them off frequently. I always had to make sure my eyes didn’t pop out of my head every time I would go over to his house and he’d answer the door barefoot, or that he didn’t catch me looking at them when he’d prop them up in front of me. He’d talk about them a lot, as if they had a personality of their own (unbeknownst to him, a huge turn-on for me; I love the idea of personifying feet). He even got those Vibram Five Finger shoes at one point and wore them ALL THE TIME (so many foot stories about this guy; I’ll have to share those elsewhere).

He was also very close to me. VERY close. Which seemed to be a great joke on me played by the universe, as I asked the heavens to send me signs of his sexuality, just to help me figure him out. For every sign I got, though, another countered it: He and I would share VERY long hello/goodbye hugs (much to our friends’ amusement); we could talk on the phone or in person for hours at a time, very late into the evening; we finished each other’s thoughts and sentences; he wouldn’t even flinch at my attempts at more intimate contact, such as brushing his hair out of his face or, a few times, walking somewhere with him arm-in-arm. Even his limited relationship experience mirrored mine (neither of us had ever dated, but had each been fixated on one female crush previously; me in a romantic but not sexual way, if that makes sense). Despite these seemingly blunt signs, though, I noticed that he did seem to have female celebrity crushes, that his awkwardness around girls was his rather misguided attempt at flirting, and that he didn’t seem to mind the attention of females when he received it (which was often, as he was very good looking and exuded vulnerability).

Once I turned 18, I was determined to keep my mouth shut about my feelings, as he wasn’t of age yet; coming out would be one thing, especially after realizing that (according to his mother) he considered me to be a kind of surrogate big brother. To tell him I was in love with him, too? The consequences to that would surely be enormous.

So I kept quiet, using the time to learn more about my sexuality and to maintain my friendship with him.

When he started attending the same university, he’d call me almost every other day to let me know if we could have lunch or not (he was renowned amongst our mutual friends for being very flakey and non-committal). I used to get very hurt if he said he had to cancel, at the university and for other things. But when we did spend time together, it was kind of like the outside world disappeared and it was just the two of us.

Now, the politics of our group had become very complicated at that point (as teenage groups are wont to do). The details would take up an entire thread in itself, so all I will say here is that we had a couple in our group who were very outspoken about who they did and did not like, and the two had managed to slowly tear the group apart, leaving only the people they liked remaining when hosting their own hangouts. My best friend and I were included in this group; unfortunately, this couple was starting to influence my best friend in very poor ways.

(Continued in next post...)

[Gyronemo]

(. . . Continued from previous post)

Around this time, the couple was going to get married. I decided to postpone my coming out to my friends (all of whom knew this couple) until after the wedding, so as not to take the attention away from their special day. Unfortunately, the universe decided to test me in a grandiose way.

At this same time, my best friend was reporting that a girl in one of his classes (whom he had never met before) seemed to be taking a rather obnoxious interest in him (his words, not mine); she would follow him around, make odd sounds to get his attention, even scream at him (which I had the displeasure of being witness to on one occasion, the only time I ever saw her). He told me over the span of a month that he wasn’t sure what to do; realizing that it wasn’t my job to decide his sexuality for him, I insisted that he needed to at least make a choice one way or the other so the poor girl could at least have an answer.

At the end of that month, as I was joking with him about the girl, he told me that (after her second successful attempt at catching him off-guard and kissing him) he had kissed her back. I had to remain composed the entire ride home (we carpooled, which is how I heard the news). When I got home, I burst into tears.

Things got even worse over the coming months. He wanted to start introducing her to all of our friends, but he seemed unsure of how to go about it and kept asking me for advice, which I (as his best friend) was obliged to provide. My friends started noticing that I was pulling away from the group more, and when I didn’t attend our annual Christmas party for fear of making a scene upon seeing the two together, things became really difficult, as some of my friends (the engaged couple and my best friend’s sister in particular) became increasingly insistent that I share what was going. However, I continued to insist that I wasn’t ready to share.

During this difficult time, a very wise friend of mine at the university helped me a great deal to realize something. She told me, “You know, even if you weren’t in love with this guy, you would still be facing the reality that you’re gay. So you’re coming out shouldn’t be about him. It should be about you.” And she was right. After the wedding of our friends, I began coming out. To only my most trustworthy friends, I mentioned my love for my best friend (and none of them ever divulged the secret). To others, I omitted this portion. But In all of my coming out experiences, the focus wasn’t on him, it was on me, and what this coming out meant for me. And, for the most part, my friends were spectacular (the married couple didn’t respond quite as well as everyone else).

Then, of course, came the big day when I would come out to my best friend. Of course, up to that time, I had debated whether or not I should include my feelings for him, but remembering my other friend’s wise words, as well as the cautionary note from my parents that they didn’t feel he was as mature as me and thus would not take hearing that well, I decided that the best way to deal with it was thus: I would come out to him and if he asked if I had feelings for him, I would be honest. If he didn’t, I wouldn’t say anything and begin the process of moving on from him.

The latter is what happened. He reacted with flying colors and I’ll always remember that particular day as a very special one, as we reconnected so strongly. I also realized that, in the interest of our friendship, I was ready to move on and simply be friends. Sadly, this ideal setup didn’t last long.

I have strong suspicions that his sister, along with the married couple, put into his head (or at least encouraged the already existing suspicion) that I had feelings for him, and they made me into a joke in his eyes. He became distant from me, forcefully attempting to downplay our strong connection, spending a lot more time with his girlfriend (who, I should point out, none of our mutual friends much cared for) who was beginning to change him into an egotistical, insensitive prick. Ever-so-suddenly, he wasn’t the guy I had fallen in love with anymore.

He and I had a long conversation that essentially ended the friendship. I tried to make it a clean cut, but in his passive aggressive manner, he made the entire “break-up” very messy and complicated.

There are a lot more details to this story, but this is all I could manage to type out for now. If you ever want to know more, I’d be happy to answer what questions I can.

I should note that I posted this not to say that this will happen to you and to everyone who is going through something similar, but that it served me well to take a route of caution. Me coming out was something I felt needed to be done; for my own personal self, I needed (not wanted, needed) to let my friends know I was gay. How they dealt with it was the true test of friendship, and while my best friend initially passed that test, he later failed it monumentally, even attempting to blame me for said failure:



Me: “Everyone else seems to be handling this well. All they’re doing is going on with our friendship as normal. But you’ve been so distant lately. You barely call me or talk to me anymore.”

Best Friend: “Well, I guess you should’ve told me how you wanted me to act, because I didn’t know what you wanted from me.”
Not exactly the ideal response.

I will always value the love I had for this guy and the friendship we had. I even believe that we are meant to be together, but perhaps in another life when he has experienced enough to have found himself. I also still have the suspicion that he was, in fact, gay (or possibly bisexual), or that I was the only guy he ever had feelings for, but that it scared him and he retreated to what has proved to be a rather unhealthy relationship with that girl just to prove something to himself and others. But I have moved on. Sadly, he is not even attractive to me anymore (he started wearing uncomplimentary clothes, became nearly skin and bones and gained a rather snarky, self-satisfied demeanor). But from time to time I think of him quite fondly, and if I think hard enough, his old self (his true self) still gives me a pleasant tingle.

I believe what most people have said here is the best route for you to take with your situation, and I’m glad you’re following it for now. It is not our job to force sexuality on others, try as we might in our heads or by the observations we have. They must find it for themselves; if your friend discovers he is bi, or even gay, somewhere down the line, possibly because of his friendship with you, and he decides to share that with you, that would be a beautiful thing. If he is, in fact, straight, that means you two can still have a beautiful friendship! I, myself, discovered that life is simply too short to wait so long for someone to come to the same conclusion as me about romance when they are not inclined to do so. As my current (female) best friend put it, “If you thought he was who you were meant to be with in this lifetime, imagine how great the guy is who i* waiting out there for you!”

[eagle024]

What an incredibly moving story, thanks for sharing it. I hope you have or do find someone that you can share your life with.

All of these comments and stories have made it clear to me that IF I say anything to my friend, it is about me - and not him. And I really only see myself bringing up the feet thing if he asked some probing questions.

And I've got a strong instinct that our friendship would be able to withstand any awkwardness, might even get stronger.- we have had a couple of tough conflicts in the past and it felt like overcoming them actually was part of us becoming closer friends.

The thing is - I have to figure out what I would actually be telling him, because I'm still struggling to put it into words for myself. In my head, I have categorized myself as bi - because I am attracted to people of both sexes. But my interests are not equivalent. When it comes to sex, I want to be with a woman - I am turned on by their bodies and the feeling of being with them. And while I'm attracted to men, I don't have any interest in having sex with them. When I see a hot guy, I only really want to rub/kiss/suck his feet. Or maybe be jerked off by his feet. I've even tried watching gay porn to see there was something I was denying. But it didn't do anything for me. I really feel like I want to be in a woman's pants and a man's shoes!

So as far as telling my friend about my situation...I have no idea what I would actually say though I wish I could. We have talked about important issues with each other before, including some discussions about spirituality and have good dialogues about political issues even though we vote very differently.

I guess someone could argue that I'm kidding myself, but I'm totally anonymous here so I don't feel like I'm writing from a place of fear or denial. In fact, I talked to a shrink a couple of years ago about my feelings and my interest in men's feet. When I tried to explain myself, I was astonished when she practically said, "oh but you know what they say about guys with big feet!" I never went back.

Maybe this existential "crisis" I'm putting into words here is off the original point of the post, but it helps me to write about it - and to hear any supportive or insightful reactions.

[Gyronemo]

The thing is - I have to figure out what I would actually be telling him, because I'm still struggling to put it into words for myself. In my head, I have categorized myself as bi - because I am attracted to people of both sexes. But my interests are not equivalent. When it comes to sex, I want to be with a woman - I am turned on by their bodies and the feeling of being with them. And while I'm attracted to men, I don't have any interest in having sex with them. When I see a hot guy, I only really want to rub/kiss/suck his feet. Or maybe be jerked off by his feet. I've even tried watching gay porn to see there was something I was denying. But it didn't do anything for me. I really feel like I want to be in a woman's pants and a man's shoes!

So as far as telling my friend about my situation...I have no idea what I would actually say though I wish I could. We have talked about important issues with each other before, including some discussions about spirituality and have good dialogues about political issues even though we vote very differently.

It sounds to me that you need to decide what you'll share, how much you'll share, and to who. You seem to have a pretty fair grasp on what your sexual desires are, and how that shapes other parts of you. Now it's just figuring out how much you share and who you share that with. And that is a very difficult piece. But I'll say this as a follow-up to my story; it's very important to decide those pieces before you venture further. Whoever you confide in may have many or no questions, and it's good to be prepped for that. And, of course, it's perfectly fair to say "I'm not comfortable answering that" or "That's not what I wanted to discuss with you." 'Cause, in the end, this candid sharing, this "coming-out," this whatever-you-want-to-term-it, is about you, first and foremost.